Uncommon Sense

March 31, 2022

The Holy Bible Is the Word of God . . . Not

In my last post I argued that Jesus was not part of any godhead, if he was real or not. And I am prepared for all of the counter-arguments that might be offered, e.g. we cannot understand God’s will, our minds are too feeble. Answer: Why would an all-powerful entity create an entire species of sentient creatures which couldn’t understand it, at least on some fundamental level. What they would be worshiping would be a distortion of the actual god. Making a sentient species that could not understand the creator god or its plans is not the behavior of an all-knowing, all-powerful god. This is simply human excuse making.

In this post, I wish to also discredit the dogma that the holy Bible is the explicit word of this god. Let’s unpack that claim.

Since this god is capable of, should it desire to do so, placing the exact words it wants written into the mind of a scribe and then have that scribe write exactly what it wished, meat puppet style? Clearly the capability exists and clearly this did not happen. We know this did not happen because the Bible was written over centuries of time. Since this god is all-knowing, it would know what needed to be written instantly and would have had that done, so when those scriptures were needed by the puny humans, they would be at hand. In addition, we know the Bible had many authors. No, not because we have examined the original manuscripts and noticed all of the different handwritings. (This would be irrelevant if Yahweh were using the meat-puppet technique as I am sure he would use up quite a few scribes in the process. Plus you do know, do you not, that none of the original manuscripts have ever been found, yes? None.) We know that the Bible had many authors because of the styles of writing, the words employed, the sentence structures, etc. Just as you may have favorite authors, because you like their style, story telling techniques, etc. so these authors become fairly easily recognized, should you study them deeply enough.

Well, Yahweh didn’t use the meat-puppet technique then, you claim. Okay, let us say that that was not done, that the exact words were not dictated to the scribes doing the writing. So, those writers must have been “inspired” to write their bits. The word “inspire” means to “breathe in.” So, just as a fiction writer mulls over a story their head and then just starts writing, not quite sure how it will go (often enough the characters guide us, believe it or not). But what about quality control? What if the dividing lines between inspired story lines and scribal/priestly imagination are not all that sharp? That means that some of the words were inspired by Yahweh and some were inspired by the author’s imagination. How are we to tell the difference between scriptures that are truly inspired and scriptures that are merely invented? The simple answer is that we would not be able to.

And then, consequently when copies of documents were made and people, as is their want, forged some new documents, how could we tell? The answer is we cannot. But there is a simple test. Find a list of the 600+ commandments of Yahweh to his chosen people (You really didn’t think there were just ten, did you no?), pick one and ask yourself this question: “Is this something an all-knowing, all-powerful god would be interested in?” For example, there is a commandment to not create clothing in which two different kinds of material were woven together (e.g. linen and wool, Leviticus 19:19). This is obviously not a moral law, but more likely it “protects” the sacredness of the ephod of the high priest which was made of linen and dyed thread (Exodus 28:6–839:4–5). The dyed thread would have been made of wool. The ephod of the high priest was the only garment that could be woven of linen and wool. No one else was allowed to have such a garment. Now, does this sound like something an all-knowing, all-powerful god would be interested in legislating or is this something you think some priest made up? In many, many cases it is clear to see that some priest made up some rule and, to make sure it got followed, it was slipped into “holy scripture.” It is possible that the priests, who saw themselves as political leaders as well as religious leaders made up their stupid rules because that’s what leaders do and later on they became scriptures, which is kind of innocent on their part . . . or they may have inserted their rules into scripture just because they had the power to do so, which is not all that innocent. (I am reminded of the finding of the “document”–probably the book of Leviticus–after the “Return” by the high priest. This was “identified by the High Priest as a very holy book and it was read out loud to the populace of Jerusalem. Seems a bit suspicious to me, especially as it laid out priestly powers and responsibilities.)

How about “You are not to boil a young animal in its mother’s milk” (Exodus 23:19)? Is this something an all-knowing, all-powerful god would be interested in? No? One suggestion for this prohibition was that the local gentiles in the area considered that a delicacy. By prohibiting that, the scribes/priests were trying to create laws to stop Jewish assimilation into those other cultures. It is not that these “commandments” do not have reasons, even some very good reasons, behind them, but are those reasons god sourced? Many, many people say they are. The brains god supposedly gave you say many aren’t.

The Bible is scripture for myriad religions and sects (even Mormons!) but the word of god? No one would come to that conclusion other than by taking someone else’s word for it. And, really, what do they know?

Addendum So, what would be the behavior of such an entity (all-powerful, all-knowing, all-etc.) at that time? Well, from scripture we know that Yahweh could create stone tablets with writing on them. (Because we know that Moses didn’t create them—Pop Quiz What was Moses’ occupation?) So, let’s say there is a fundamental message that Yahweh wanted to get to all people, maybe “The End is nigh.” In a prominent place (some voted for the Moon, but I think not), say a side of a mountain, a beam of immense power comes from “the Heavens” and slices off a mountainside creating a smooth surface. Then the beam plays back and forth over that surface, spelling out “I am the Lord God, and the End is nigh! Repent!” in immense letters readable from miles away. The beam then winks out. This takes some time, it doesn’t just pop up overnight and its creation is in plain view of many people, who see the words being formed. Miraculously the people reading the message say it is in Hebrew, others say, “No, it is Greek,” and still others say, “But it is Aramaic.” To get full coverage (the news is slower than gossip at this point in time), this action is repeated near every major population center world wide. Now that would be an action unmistakably attributable to an all-powerful, all-knowing god. There would still be skeptics (we are talking about human beings here) but they would be few in number.

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44 Comments »

  1. According to Christ, the ‘fundamental level of understanding’ you ask for is given to the ‘poor in spirit,’ those who are repentant and seeking God.
    Even the disciples were puzzled over Jesus’s parables- more than anything they were attracted to HIM, and so submitted to his blatant authority.
    Plus, I wonder that an ambiguous Bible is part of the package- my daily relationship is with HIM, not the scriptures. If men wrote it it must have errors.

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    Comment by Arnold — March 31, 2022 @ 4:39 pm | Reply

    • I wonder that an ambiguous Bible is part of the package- my daily relationship is with HIM, not the scriptures. If men wrote it it must have errors.

      As these topics are now evolving on two different posts, I’ll repeat what I responded with to this strange, weird logic and rabbit-trail over on the previous post:

      Sure, but if there is no final authority—in whatever endless terms & definitions Faithers prescribe to or promote; it’s all at the whim of each individual—then humanity, or at least that (small?) portion of humanity, is right back to what cultures & people believed in Prehistoric, Classical, Antiquity and beyond: Polytheism, Polydeism, and endless Pluralism in superstitions.

      And anyone & everyone can argue, deny, or fight not be categorized in any of those poly-isms, but without any omni final Authority… every single Faither’s unique faith is also moot and irrelevant to the whole, the Earth too… to be fair. That’s just simple reasoning and logic.

      You responded with an apparent contradictory tune now saying…

      Final authority is in Christ. For example he says, “Return unto me.” And Paul says, “Christ is the head over every power and authority.”

      This type of reasoning/responses sound very diametric to me. And that is not at all confoundment by me, that is bad logic, flawed reasoning on your part, especially when the full historical and verifiable context of Yeshua bar Yosef and his Homeland Sectarian Jews can be easily found, examined tooth-n-nail, and relied upon as accurate real-life history. And as far as Saul of Tarsus is concerned—who was NOT at all of the tribe of Benjamin in Cilicia/Asia Minor (modern day Turkey)—he was despised and banned by the Homeland Jews, literally almost murdered for his wild, heretical theology that almost bordered on evil Anti-Semitism.

      Arnold, you are claiming two different, opposing concepts then calling this faulty logic/reasoning “confoundment” or mysteries of God, blah blah blah… exactly what Steve correctly identifies as “This is simply human excuse making.” You seem to be chasing your own tail going in diametric circles. And again, that isn’t OUR inability in cognition, that is simply identifying poor logic & reasoning—and not ‘poor in Spirit’ in the least! We secularists have TONS of exceptional Spirit! 😉

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      Comment by Professor Taboo — April 1, 2022 @ 11:57 am | Reply

      • Sorry, I really don’t see the contradiction.

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        Comment by Arnold — April 1, 2022 @ 2:59 pm | Reply

        • Ahh, well then… to borrow your phrase earlier… you are ‘poor in Spirit’ as well as exegetical biblical studies my friend. You MIGHT just be blinded by peer-assimilation and peer-pressure and/or the theatrical dopamine performances typical of Protestant church congregations—i.e. too many Placebos have been swallowed then reinforced by others also “performing” what they were taught.

          I want to delve into your “personal” story with the Greek “Christ”… i.e. how you came to believe and think this way—your “personal testimony” as they say in your circles. But I’ll resist for now because you’ve already stated that YOUR individual “faith” isn’t necessarily identical or within the mainstream consensus of Christendom or what makes a “Christian.” That’s a whole ‘nother long, maddening rabbit-trail! 😄

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          Comment by Professor Taboo — April 1, 2022 @ 4:00 pm | Reply

          • I hope to be poor indeed, my professorial friend: ‘Unless you be converted and become as little children, you shan’t enter God’s kingdom.’

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            Comment by Arnold — April 1, 2022 @ 4:41 pm | Reply

            • Done that, got the t-shirt, and it is all empty. I know Greek & Hebrew Scripture like the back of my hand; no need to preach to the choir. Sorry my friend. I hope in the future you will not believe (hook, line, & sinker) all that Snake Oil salesmen sell you. 😉

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              Comment by Professor Taboo — April 1, 2022 @ 6:16 pm | Reply

              • Prof, if the bible’s even only half-right my life is laid bare to the God who made me; if not, I’ll die in peace, satisfied.

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                Comment by Arnold — April 2, 2022 @ 1:03 am | Reply

                • 👍🏻

                  In my years as a Psych/A&D rehab Intake Coordinator (clinical admissions advisor) those sorts of self-induced mind games have two or three DSM-5 (now version 6) diagnoses. Of course there are various degrees of minor, major, or acute manifestations, etc., but I’ll leave it that. 😉 Most of the uninformed, unaware, untrained general public have little idea (if any at all) how very, VERY common these disorders are in our primate species—versus very flawed divine creations. 😉

                  Best regards to you Arnold. Thanks again for your courteous dialogue.

                  Liked by 1 person

                  Comment by Professor Taboo — April 2, 2022 @ 11:31 am | Reply

    • And btw, for a much further detailed, indepth examination of Saul of Tarsus’ ACTUAL background according to Jewish sources and other direct and indirect sources, I wrote a 5-part series on the bizarre character known as Paul… who was AT BEST only a Hellenistic Diaspora Jew, BUT related to and associated with of all anti-Semitic leaders, kings… Herod. Paul was a Herodian Jew, the ones Homeland Jews utterly despised, for obvious historical and sociopolitical reasons. 🙂

      Saul the Apostate — Part I

      Liked by 1 person

      Comment by Professor Taboo — April 1, 2022 @ 12:12 pm | Reply

      • I missed this, am reading it now.

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by Steve Ruis — April 1, 2022 @ 12:21 pm | Reply

        • Thank you Steve. It is by no means Peer-reviewed nor Ph.D. level, 😉 but I have had some outstanding mentors, professors, and near 3-decades of intense study in the fields of Biblical Christian History (Roman), Exegesis, Koine Greek (then later Mishnaic Hebrew with complimentary Syro-Aramaic, the two PRIMARY languages Yeshua bar Yosef read & spoke), Apologetics, and finally (but not exhaustively) Jewish History, especially Late Temple Judaism/Messianism and intermediary Zugot Rabbinical history and concentrated studies of Tannaim Rabbinical history (Jesus’ time-period). Anyway, for what that is worth Sir.

          Liked by 1 person

          Comment by Professor Taboo — April 1, 2022 @ 1:44 pm | Reply

      • True, Jesus and Paul did not meet on earth. “Saul’s Christ” was the glorified Christ, ‘the mighty God and terrible.’ The Christ of the gospels is the God who ’emptied himself,’ a servant who ‘became obedient to the death.’

        Your assumption that, “Jesus did not care for all humanity” is untrue. He surely helped the Canaanite and Samaritan women, the Samaritan leper, and Roman centurion. However, his mission in part was a last call to his covenanted people, the Jews. They’d failed since Abraham to proclaim God’s praises, failed to sing of the Redeemer to come. And again, they mostly failed to recognize him.

        Sure, Saul/Paul may have had epilepsy; he may have had visions. However, out of his conversion he came preaching the glorified Christ that had taken upon himself- and defeated- sin and death. The lifted up, glorified Christ is one and the same Spirit sent, in whom I’m ‘born of God.’

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        Comment by Arnold — April 1, 2022 @ 4:33 pm | Reply

        • Hmmm, okay. We have now reached my limit/end of indulgence given your amateur knowledge and education in ACTUAL biblical history, Greek vs. Jewish theology, Late Second Temple Judaism, and general Protestant indoctrination. I’ve heard it all Arnold, sorry, your common buzzwords and predictable apologetics—all of which I learned in seminary and 11+ years in missions & ministry both abroad and domestically—just hold no water or logic whatsoever sir.

          In my mind, and perhaps others here on Steve’s blog, you haven’t shared anything that is remotely new or OUTSIDE of predictable Xian apologetics and indoctrination (brainwashing). It has been all regurgitation on your part. 🙂

          I wish you the best regards and thank you again for your civil discourse in this (futile?) discussion of Jewish Yeshua’s contextual history. Believe what you wish—my Sasquatchainity is just as valid as your pseudo Greek-Christianity.

          Best wishes

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          Comment by Professor Taboo — April 1, 2022 @ 6:14 pm | Reply

        • At least answer this ONE simple question Arnold with either yes or no:

          Was Jesus born and raised a Torah-loving Jew in Galilee between 6-4 BCE inside oppressive Imperial Rome?

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          Comment by Professor Taboo — April 1, 2022 @ 6:38 pm | Reply

          • Yes.

            Liked by 1 person

            Comment by Arnold — April 1, 2022 @ 8:24 pm | Reply

            • Good, sir. Thank you for at least acknowledging that historical fact. 🙂

              Now, please tell me AT LENGTH what you know about Jesus’ Late Temple Judaism during fervent 1st-century CE Sectarian Messianism in relation to Imperial Rome’s provincial governing. Do not use any Christian or Early Greco-Roman Church Fathers as your source… those are not the only sources of who Yeshua bar Yosef was or his background—barring his 17-years missing—because you will NOT find Jesus’ Tannaitic background nor his rural sectarian reforms (or loathing of Temple worship) or how much he disregarded ‘the unclean pigs of Hellenistic Rome.

              Take your time in gathering these historical facts and likely plausibilities within his Late Second Temple Judaism/Messianism… because in order to find the REAL Yeshua bar Yosef, the COMPLETE Yeshua bar Yosef and what he taught and wanted reformed, you’ll have no choice but to leave (abandon?) your cherished canonical Greco-Roman New Testament. You must learn everything there is to know about Jesus’/Yeshua’s rural Sectarian, Torah-loving Jewishness.

              Here’s one free “tip” I’ll give you on where you can start: the Dead Sea Scrolls of Qumran. Particularly the scrolls contemporaneous with Yeshua’s lifetime. These scrolls are a treasure-trove of Jesus’ historical context; a goldmine, and only one non-Hellenistic Gentile source out of MANY a true truth-seeker can obtain! 🙂

              Liked by 1 person

              Comment by Professor Taboo — April 2, 2022 @ 11:49 am | Reply

              • For Arnold,

                Should make one sentence above more clear…

                …a goldmine, and only one non-Hellenistic non-Gentile source to be found” as opposed to all the common, overly biased Greek-centered sources the Roman Catholic Church passed on to unlearned masses over two millenia.

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                Comment by Professor Taboo — April 2, 2022 @ 11:56 am | Reply

              • PT, I think by now most of us that read your blog and/or comments are well aware of your extensive education and experience surrounding Christian history. The thing is, there are many individuals who claim the title of Christian who simply “believe.” They have little to no interest in pursuing the ins and outs of “Why” or “How.” I tend to think Arnold is one of those people.

                But I could be wrong …

                Liked by 1 person

                Comment by Nan — April 2, 2022 @ 12:05 pm | Reply

                • Hah! As I was responding to you Nan (in agreement)… look how Arnold did indeed reply. HAH!!! You are psychic Nan!!! 😄😉

                  Yep, now whether it is “believing” blindly or just lazy “ignorance is bliss” posturing, it certainly isn’t established fact/truth by any stretch. I call that posturing: Intellectual Suicide. We can all have lobotomies and “believe” with just as much conviction as this blind-faith, huh?

                  As I sometimes retort… “my Sasquatchainity is equally valid as Christianity!” Lol

                  Liked by 1 person

                  Comment by Professor Taboo — April 2, 2022 @ 12:19 pm | Reply

              • Prof, I’m not a truth-seeker! Why go looking for something/someone I’ve already found? Christ is my life and friend and God. I think, walk and talk in plain view of his omniscience. I LIVE him.

                Through the year I fellowship with 4 different-denominational worship-families in 3 states; they’re my brothers and sisters in Christ. You are my WP brother if you so desire. This is me now man! If someday I go Dead Sea Scrolling so be it.

                Liked by 1 person

                Comment by Arnold — April 2, 2022 @ 12:13 pm | Reply

    • The disciples in the gospels came across as simpletons and buffoons. Gee I wonder if anyone had an axe to grind with disciples/apostles who actually worked with Jesus, hmmm . . . let’s see, oh Saul/Paul! And who wrote the gospels? People aligned with Paul. he did not care for the Super Apostles, no siree. So, the disciples got slammed, the Pharisees and Sadducees got slammed. Let’s see, who came off best in the gospels? The Romans! It is almost as if someone were trying to curry favor with them. . . .

      Liked by 1 person

      Comment by Steve Ruis — April 1, 2022 @ 9:39 pm | Reply

      • No doubt- I’m like the disciples and you all are Saul’s! David v Goliath. Moses v Pharoah. The Bible is perfect cartoon/3 Stooges/epic film material.

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by Arnold — April 1, 2022 @ 11:33 pm | Reply

  2. See Steve, trying to have a pertinent, provable, evidential discussion with a Faith-believer (blind faith) is like trying to convince the Lion, Tin-man, and the Scarecrow that The Incredible Oz is nothing but a mere weak man behind a curtain pulling levers and making a grand SHOW of… Much Ado About Nothing. But they just REFUSE to examine any verified, reliable sources that their strictly Greco-Roman sources are horribly flawed… because of 2,000+ years of foolery!? Lol 😉

    Liked by 1 person

    Comment by Professor Taboo — April 1, 2022 @ 6:22 pm | Reply

    • If you are talking about Arnold; I like him. He claims his faith. Doesn’t make any of the weirder claims for it. Faces facts. I certainly don’t expect his to jettison his faith because of our dulcet prose. :o)

      Liked by 1 person

      Comment by Steve Ruis — April 2, 2022 @ 12:35 pm | Reply

      • Eh, but Steve… you know FULL WELL what their (claimed!) personal, private(?) beliefs translate into for civic, social, and political agendas directly or indirectly. Hence, whether a pleasant not-in-your-face Arnold OR an Oral Roberts, Robert Tilton, and Joel Osteen type… if they can brainwash thousands upon thousands with their Snake Oil Salesmen marketing pitches, what does that do to a Constitutional Democracy that was NEVER founded or designed as a religious institution/nation—just a neutral secular one?

        We must engage them at every opportunity and pull back that Wizard of Oz curtain they hide behind my good Friend. 🙂

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by Professor Taboo — April 2, 2022 @ 12:54 pm | Reply

  3. Psalm 73

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    Comment by chattingaboutgod — April 2, 2022 @ 12:17 pm | Reply

    • The Psalms are songs, songs of praise, yes, but not theological documents and so aren’t a response to really anything. Possibly you share a feeling with the author of that Psalm, that’s fine, but it is just a feeling. Did you have something else in mind?

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      Comment by Steve Ruis — April 2, 2022 @ 12:37 pm | Reply

    • Do what is good and right before Him as He commanded by the hand of Moses and all His servants the prophets” (Community Rule 1:1–3).

      “They shall not profane the city where I abide, for I, the Lord, abide amongst the children of Israel for ever and ever” (Temple Scroll XLV: 13–14).

      “This is the day appointed by Him for the defeat and overthrow of the Prince of the kingdom of wickedness” (War of the Sons and Light and the Sons of Darkness XVII:5–6).

      BEWARE all you Believers! There are many Spouters of Lies, False Prophets abound from the Hellenistic Soothsayers of that century and this one today! They too will perish in the fires far far from the Lord’s heart! 😉 😈

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      Comment by Professor Taboo — April 2, 2022 @ 12:45 pm | Reply

  4. I’m composing a thought is that okay ?

    Liked by 1 person

    Comment by chattingaboutgod — April 2, 2022 @ 12:38 pm | Reply

  5. lol, I’m not going to try to go toe to toe with you…it’s very obvious your a learned man and you believe in what you have “perceived” to be right…Psalm 73 is thought process of Asaph who sees men like yourself and their final days…
    What I’m hoping to accomplish is that Jesus is God, but first I like to see if you are willing to agree with what I’m going to post,

    Many atheists are very intelligent. It is not intelligence, or a lack thereof, that leads a person to reject belief in God. It is a lack of righteousness that leads a person to reject belief in God. Many people do not object to the idea of a Creator, as long as that Creator minds His own business and leaves them alone. What people reject is the idea of a Creator who demands morality from His creation. Rather than struggle against a guilty conscience, some people reject the idea of God altogether. Psalm 14:1 calls this type of person a “fool.”

    Psalm 14:1 says that denying God’s existence is commonly based on a desire to lead a wicked life. Several prominent atheists have admitted the truth of this. Some, such as author Aldous Huxley, have openly admitted that a desire to avoid moral restraints was a motivation for their disbelief:

    “I had motives for not wanting the world to have a meaning; and consequently assumed that it had none, and was able without any difficulty to find satisfying reasons for this assumption. The philosopher who finds no meaning in the world is not concerned exclusively with a problem in pure metaphysics. He is also concerned to prove that there is no valid reason why he personally should not do as he wants to do. For myself, as no doubt for most of my friends, the philosophy of meaninglessness was essentially an instrument of liberation from a certain system of morality. We objected to the morality because it interfered with our sexual freedom. The supporters of this system claimed that it embodied the meaning – the Christian meaning, they insisted – of the world. There was one admirably simple method of confuting these people and justifying ourselves in our erotic revolt: we would deny that the world had any meaning whatever.” ― Aldous Huxley, Ends and Means

    Belief in a divine Being is accompanied by a sense of accountability to that Being. So, to escape the condemnation of conscience, which itself was created by God, some simply deny the existence of God. They tell themselves, “There is no overseer of the world. There is no Judgment Day. I can live as I please.” The moral pull of the conscience is thus more easily ignored.

    Trying to convince oneself there is no God is unwise. The point of “The fool says in his heart, ‘There is no God’” is that it is an impious, sinful heart that will deny God. The atheist’s denial flies in the face of much evidence to the contrary, including his own conscience and the universe he lives in.

    A lack of evidence of God’s existence is not the true reason atheists reject a belief in God. Their rejection is due to a desire to live free of the moral constraints God requires and to escape the guilt that accompanies the violation of those constraints. “The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them . . . so that people are without excuse…Their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools…Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts…They exchanged the truth about God for a lie” (Romans 1:18–25).
    For Further Study: we can have a conversation as men with respect to one another…
    Dave

    Liked by 1 person

    Comment by chattingaboutgod — April 2, 2022 @ 12:47 pm | Reply

    • Steve…. was this meant for you? It’s anonymously addressed. It doesn’t seem to be addressed to me… so I’m leaving it/him alone for YOU Sir to deal with. 🤭 I have much, MUCH better things to do with my time. 😉

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      Comment by Professor Taboo — April 2, 2022 @ 1:00 pm | Reply

      • Hi Taboo,
        if like to chat also, I’m good, …
        Dave

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        Comment by chattingaboutgod — April 2, 2022 @ 1:02 pm | Reply

        • As I’ve already stated:

          …so I’m leaving it/him alone for YOU Sir to deal with. 🤭 I have much, MUCH better things to do with my time. 😉

          I’ll leave it to you and the very capable hands of Steve. 👍🏻

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          Comment by Professor Taboo — April 2, 2022 @ 5:51 pm | Reply

          • Thanks for writing back

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            Comment by chattingaboutgod — April 3, 2022 @ 11:35 am | Reply

    • Too much here to comment upon but I will address “It is not intelligence, or a lack thereof, that leads a person to reject belief in God. It is a lack of righteousness that leads a person to reject belief in God.” You people define “righteousness” as being morally correct. So, you are basically saying “It is not intelligence, or a lack thereof, that leads a person to reject belief in God. It is immorality that leads a person to reject belief in God.” But you define morality as being in your God’s pocket, so your argument is circular. Atheists like me really hate being called immoral by people who have never met us and know jack squat about how we have lived our lives.

      Christians go about asking benign questions like “What church do you go to?” and making comments like “Praise God.” and “Praise Jesus.” These are all virtue signaling and code for “I am a good Christian and therefore a good person.” Of course, no such correlation exists, Our prisons are full of Christians and even the clergy are often criminals. Good people come in all stripes: Christians, yes, and Buddhists, Jains, Hindus, Muslims, etc. even atheists. And people of those proclivities are also represented in our jails and prisons. The only conclusion one can come to is that belief in a particular religion does not correlate with being moral,

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      Comment by Steve Ruis — April 6, 2022 @ 10:37 am | Reply

      • Steve,
        thanks for responding…
        first we have to define something, since you and I talking about morality…we have to define what is good, you and I are not righteous, no man is…no man is moral, futhermore, with immorality there is a penalty…for example if you rob a bank and you get away but your conscience condemns you, and you take the money back, are you guilty ? yes! even so you returned the money, but the penalty is you committed a crime…before God ALL men are guilty, and that’s why Jesus came to earth, to take the penalty of our immorality, sins…upon himself…thus the verse in the Bible being justified by FAITH we have peace with God ( Romans 5:1 )
        I see you brought in different religions in this discussion, it’s the penalty of our sins that condemns us…and as I stated earlier no man is good…even doing good works, we are guilty of sin no matter who you are.
        thank you for chatting,
        Dave

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by chattingaboutgod — April 6, 2022 @ 11:31 am | Reply

        • before God ALL men are guilty … PHEW!! Us women are off the hook!! 😈

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          Comment by Nan — April 6, 2022 @ 11:39 am | Reply

        • Re “as I stated earlier no man is good…even doing good works, we are guilty of sin no matter who you are.” A sin is a violation of one of god’s laws, not man’s laws, so a distinction needs to be made there.

          Romans, supposedly written by Saul/Paul is stating a direct contradiction of the teachings of Jesus, and you are therefore favoring Saul/Paul over Jesus. One one side is a sinless, blameless Jesus and on the other is the disreputable Saul/Paul called a liar, and worse by people who should know what they are talking about (the real Apostles). I think you might want to reconsider your choices when it comes to sources.

          You are also assuming all men are born as sinners and there is no evidence of that. Yahweh himself, through the Prophet Ezekiel proclaimed that a father could not inherit the sins of his son, not vice-versa, so Original Sin (invented by St, Augustine in the 1600(s) . . . I think) is a bogus concept. One should be suspicious of anyone claiming you have a disease (that they caused, btw) that can only be cured by the cure they have.

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          Comment by Steve Ruis — April 6, 2022 @ 12:22 pm | Reply

          • Hey Steve,
            Your close, but first where is the contradiction ? By your own confession you agree your a sinner ? So now is lacking is forgiveness, you brought up Saul/ Paul, in the book of Romans in chapter 3, God lays out man’s depravity; and how Jesus takes not only takes man’s sin ( even the penalty )but make us right in Gods sight by placing our faith in Jesus…if you read Romans 3 just at face value, with no preconceived ideas… my prayer that the Holy Spirit ( Ghost for King James folks) will show how much God loves you and made the way to know him.
            I have to admit, God has surely given you a quick mind, I pray your heart is the same
            Chat soon ?
            Dave

            Like

            Comment by chattingaboutgod — April 6, 2022 @ 1:22 pm | Reply


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