Class Warfare Blog

November 11, 2019

Scientists Don’t Always Hew Toward Logic

Filed under: Reason,Religion,Science — Steve Ruis @ 8:07 am
Tags: ,

In an article on the Answers in Genesis web site, Jason Lisle, who has a Ph.D. in astrophysics and has published several credible papers on the sun, stated this:

“The Christian worldview is what makes science possible. The universe is always logical because logic is a description of how God thinks. God is perfectly rational. And since God’s mind controls the universe, the universe will always be logical. Being made in God’s image, human beings have the capacity to think logically, although in our sin we sometimes fail to do so. The success of science is, therefore, evidence that the Christian worldview is correct.”

He made this comment after saying “The branch of physics dealing with how the universe operates at very small scales — interactions involving particles smaller than atoms — is called quantum mechanics. Quantum mechanics is weird.”

I don’t think he will get a counterargument from anyone who has studied quantum mechanics that “Quantum mechanics is weird.” But, just what sins are preventing us from logically grasping what is going on in the quantum realm? He doesn’t say . . . interesting.

With regard to “And since God’s mind controls the universe, the universe will always be logical.” it seems the good doctor is espousing philosophy that is “early church” at best, which was based ex post facto upon Aristotle’s physics. In that physics, things that move had to be continuously pushed along, or they stopped. There was no inertia/Newton’s First Law of Motion. The planets moved in their heavenly orbits because there were angels pushing them along. They didn’t have room for Apollo’s fiery chariot for the Sun but if it weren’t for their faux monotheism, we might have had that, too. But in modern physics, the universe toddles along without the need of an “intelligence” behind it.

I cannot imagine Jason Lisle is this stupid (having read part of a book he wrote, I also can’t see him as being ignorant). I have to assume that he is engaging in willful wishful thinking. He so desperately wants to have a god controlling his life, that he is willing to sacrifice any common sense and basic physics knowledge he may have possessed.

This is unfortunate because religious apologists hold up people like Dr. Lisle as examples of scientists who believe and find their beliefs compatible with their science . . . when in fact, this seems to be a case of massive compartmentalization. Compartmentalization is where we hold incompatible ideas separately in our minds so they do not conflict. The religious audiences of the apologists are not usually in a place to recognize how “off” the science is from mainstream practices. Here, two separate compartments seem to be being smashed together with brute force.

And, Dr. Lisle ends with this:

“Although God is logical, he is also very creative. His ways and thoughts are far above ours (Isaiah 55:8—9). And therefore, some aspects of the way God has chosen to uphold his universe may seem very strange and surprising to us. Quantum mechanics is a great example of this. And yet, we trust that the universe will always be rational, if not always intuitive, because it is upheld by the mind of God.” In other words he uses the example of the illogic of quantum physics as an example of God’s rationality. It is so absurd, it must be true.* (*Apologistical Logic)

 

 

28 Comments »

  1. If quantum mechanics is weird, logically God’s Mind must be weird too. That would explain a lot. 🙂

    Like

    Comment by James Cross — November 11, 2019 @ 8:16 am | Reply

    • Well, we kind of knew that. :o)

      But, Lisle’s faith is that it will eventually be seen as “logical” when the film of sin is washed from our eyes. I wonder why physicists who are “saved” cannot see the logic of quantum physics? Hmmm, is great puzzlement!

      On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 8:16 AM Class Warfare Blog wrote:

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      Comment by Steve Ruis — November 11, 2019 @ 8:23 am | Reply

  2. I had my comment already in mind when I read your next line: He made this comment after saying…

    Do these Creationists ever stop and *think* about what they’re saying?

    I loathe Trump, but I have to hand it to him, he figured out he can tell evangelicals anything — absolutely ANYTHING — and they’ll blindly believe it because they simply don’t think.

    Liked by 2 people

    Comment by john zande — November 11, 2019 @ 2:56 pm | Reply

  3. Scientists like Lisle are a problem for you. Really smart and really stupid at the same time. It’d be great if he’d write papers about the absence of meaning in the universe!

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    Comment by John Branyan — November 11, 2019 @ 3:13 pm | Reply

    • Again, John, you are just sniping. Did you read the piece in which I granted Dr. Lisle both knowledge and intelligence? That I felt that he was suffering from wishful thinking, as we all do from time to time.

      Can’t you say anything in support of Dr. Lisle’s contentions? Do you have no opinion about whether God’s mind is inherently logical? That all will be made clear … eventually, once we give up sinning? Can you not support him in his contentions?

      Or is sniping all you can do?

      On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 3:13 PM Class Warfare Blog wrote:

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      Comment by Steve Ruis — November 12, 2019 @ 10:16 am | Reply

      • LOL
        Do you support any of Lisle’s contentions?

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        Comment by John Branyan — November 12, 2019 @ 10:34 am | Reply

        • None of those in the AIG article, no. In the book of his I was reading (got about a quarter of the way through) he was merely recounting well-know science history, but he would then slip in some opinions that were at best questionable. It seems that if he just larded his presentation with his opinions and made the rest common sort of science history statements, the science would rub off on his conjectures. I have not been desperate enough for something to read to pick up that book again. (I am sure you can imagine me reading that book–yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, … , what?!)

          On Tue, Nov 12, 2019 at 10:34 AM Class Warfare Blog wrote:

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          Comment by Steve Ruis — November 12, 2019 @ 12:06 pm | Reply

          • Why do you always bristle when I mention the lack of meaning in the universe?

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            Comment by John Branyan — November 12, 2019 @ 12:09 pm | Reply

            • No, that I brushed off. Just disappointed that you do not offer more as I suspect you could.

              On Tue, Nov 12, 2019 at 12:09 PM Class Warfare Blog wrote:

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              Comment by Steve Ruis — November 12, 2019 @ 12:48 pm | Reply

              • Of course I could offer more! I’ve got oceans of thoughtful commentary.

                But you keep insisting there’s no purpose or meaning in anything. I’m not motivated to expend much energy on purposeless exercises.

                Like

                Comment by John Branyan — November 12, 2019 @ 12:53 pm | Reply

                • What is the purpose of your existence?

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                  Comment by Nan — November 12, 2019 @ 12:57 pm | Reply

                  • I’ve answered that question many times, Nan. If you were genuinely interested in thoughtful conversation, you wouldn’t have blocked me.

                    Like

                    Comment by John Branyan — November 12, 2019 @ 12:59 pm | Reply

                    • No, I blocked you because I never saw any signs of “thoughtful conversation” emanating from you.

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Comment by Nan — November 12, 2019 @ 1:01 pm

                    • Right. So there’s no reason to answer your question.

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                      Comment by John Branyan — November 12, 2019 @ 1:03 pm

                    • Nice diversion. You’re very good at that.

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                      Comment by Nan — November 12, 2019 @ 1:07 pm

                    • …says she who won’t answer her own question.

                      Like

                      Comment by John Branyan — November 12, 2019 @ 1:14 pm

                • You just did.

                  On Tue, Nov 12, 2019 at 12:53 PM Class Warfare Blog wrote:

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                  Liked by 1 person

                  Comment by Steve Ruis — November 12, 2019 @ 1:05 pm | Reply

                  • Nice diversion. Think Nan will call you on it?
                    I’m betting she won’t…

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                    Comment by John Branyan — November 12, 2019 @ 1:15 pm | Reply

                  • When you write — I’m not motivated to expend much energy on purposeless exercises. — THAT is a diversion.

                    Steve said he hoped you would offer “more” … and even said he suspected that you could. You didn’t. You “diverted” to the above comment.

                    Like

                    Comment by Nan — November 12, 2019 @ 1:24 pm | Reply

                    • Looks like I won that bet.

                      Steve continually diverts from his philosophy that there is no purpose in the universe. You run interference for him by asking me to explain my purpose.
                      Then you both pretend I’m the one with the incoherent worldview.

                      Ask Steve why he bothers writing a blog when there is no purpose in the universe. He won’t answer me. Maybe he’ll answer you.

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                      Comment by John Branyan — November 12, 2019 @ 4:05 pm

                    • What does purpose in the universe have to do with writing a blog?

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                      Comment by Nan — November 12, 2019 @ 4:21 pm

                    • Priceless.
                      Purpose is the reason for everything.

                      Like

                      Comment by John Branyan — November 12, 2019 @ 4:27 pm

  4. You know compassionate human being could almost (notice I did say almost) feel a tiny (very tiny) bit sorry for the man. I, being less compassionate, (it must be by time in USMC) can only imagine he read way too much Lewis Carroll (Alice in Wonderland//Through the Looking Glass) and took to heart the, believe six impossible things before breakfast every day. Quantum physics IS very weird, the main reason I quit trying to follow it. Yes, I found something that is too weird/odd ball even for me to grasp. Still quantum physics is absolutely fascinating. Maybe, sometime during my 330,000th reincarnation I may begin to grasp parts of it. Maybe.

    Like

    Comment by Walter Kronkat — November 11, 2019 @ 6:05 pm | Reply

    • The nice thing about quantum physics is that there are a great many people who can use it (it is one of the most accurate theories ever tested) but there is no one (self-confessed by the way), no one who understands it.

      So, we are all equal in this. Feels kinda nice.

      On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 6:05 PM Class Warfare Blog wrote:

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      Comment by Steve Ruis — November 12, 2019 @ 10:18 am | Reply

  5. God is logical? Not in this universe. God is capricious, vengeful, angry, childish, jealous and sadistic, yes, but logical? No. The universe is indeed logical. But god certainly isn’t. Nor is quantum physics “absurd”. It doesn’t behave according to the laws of classical Newtonian physics, but it does have laws that govern its behaviors that we are still struggling to understand. Just about every statement Lisle made in his argument is demonstrably false. The man obviously has some intelligence if he got a PhD but he just destroyed any credibility that degree may have given him.

    Like

    Comment by grouchyfarmer — November 11, 2019 @ 10:14 pm | Reply

    • Yep. It is a sad occasion that someone feels that they have to trade off some of what they are for another part of what they are. (We have met the enemy and it is me?)

      On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 10:14 PM Class Warfare Blog wrote:

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      Comment by Steve Ruis — November 12, 2019 @ 10:19 am | Reply

  6. You quoted this guy as saying … logic is a description of how God thinks

    And I can’t help but ask … “And you know this how?” Fascinating how so many individuals like to tell us about “God’s” qualities/abilities/mental capabilities. Especially having never met “Him.” Except perhaps in their imagination.

    Like

    Comment by Nan — November 12, 2019 @ 12:06 pm | Reply

    • And the next thing they will tell you is that “nobody can know the mind of god.” Like Trump, nothing said on record is binding and whatever was said last was the truth.

      On Tue, Nov 12, 2019 at 12:06 PM Class Warfare Blog wrote:

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      Liked by 2 people

      Comment by Steve Ruis — November 12, 2019 @ 12:48 pm | Reply


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