Class Warfare Blog

June 30, 2019

Evolution of the Gods—God and Satan

Filed under: Uncategorized — Steve Ruis @ 11:08 am

It seems that John Branyan cannot seem to grasp my argument regarding Satan and that a final battle on the plains of Armageddon between the forces of good and evil, must be some kind of joke because on one side you have an all-knowing and all-powerful god who can vanquish his enemies with the flick of a finger. I usually assume that any misunderstanding is my fault but I suspect that Mr. Branyan cultivates a certain imperviousness to serve his own ends (what those are isn’t clear to me).

The last question I put to him in the comments today was “Why does Satan exist? What can Satan do that Old Yahweh cannot?”

In answer to this, Satan has god-like powers. In the Bible it infers that Satan can fool Yahweh and can actually thwart his will. But, of course, Satan isn’t a god, he just plays one in church communities. Honestly, why is Satan still around?

Here is an excerpt from the listing under Satan on Wikipedia: “A figure known as “the satan” first appears in the Tanakh as a heavenly prosecutor, a member of the sons of God subordinate to Yahweh, who prosecutes the nation of Judah in the heavenly court and tests the loyalty of Yahweh’s followers by forcing them to suffer. During the intertestamental period, possibly due to influence from the Zoroastrian figure of Angra Mainyu, the satan developed into a malevolent entity with abhorrent qualities in dualistic opposition to God. In the apocryphal Book of Jubilees, Yahweh grants the satan (referred to as Mastema) authority over a group of fallen angels, or their offspring, to tempt humans to sin and punish them. In the Synoptic Gospels, Satan tempts Jesus in the desert and is identified as the cause of illness and temptation. In the Book of Revelation, Satan appears as a Great Red Dragon, who is defeated by Michael the Archangel and cast down from Heaven. He is later bound for one thousand years, but is briefly set free before being ultimately defeated and cast into the Lake of Fire.”

As usual there are more questions created than answered as soon as you delve into the back story of such a being. So . . .

  • Why would Old Yahweh need a prosecutor? To find out facts he already knows?
    • Why would suffering (torture?) be the preferred mode of examination? Has neither Satan nor Yahweh any truth serum at hand? You can lie to God?
    • “Dualistic opposition to God” spills the beans. Satan is the fall guy for anything bad that happens so that Yahweh doesn’t get blamed, even though He repeatedly admits he is the source of all good and evil.
    • Why would Yahweh create a posse of fallen angels to “tempt humans to sin and punish them”? There aren’t enough temptations that exist naturally, that he has to poke the bear over and over?
    • If, in the Book of Revelation, Satan is bound for 1000 years (now eclipsed) and then “ultimately defeated and cast into the Lake of Fire” why would Yahweh treat his trusted servant like this? And, clearly, if you ask any evangelical if Satan has been vanquished, they would say no (or maybe Hell, no!). Defeated? For doing what Yahweh wants him to do?

Getting back to my main point. Yahweh created Satan. Satan knows this. Yahweh can uncreate Satan. Satan knows this. If Satan actually opposed the plans of Yahweh, Satan would cease to exist. Satan knows this, too. So, why does Satan appear to oppose “God’s Plans”? It can only be because Satan believes that’s what Old Yahweh wants him to do. (And where did he get the idea to oppose his master? Was there some miscommunication? Aren’t angels perfect beings, created by their perfect master?) So, should Satan be blamed for anything he does . . . in his master’s name?

I don’t think so.

So, the Cynical Old Bastard in Charge (that’s translated from the Hebrew, I believe, not Aramaic) keeps Satan around as a fall guy, just to take any blame for any evil that befalls humans. Satan knows his job evaluation will be based upon how well he does his job, so he performs it to the letter. (How could he not he is as near perfect a being as Yahweh could make?) And for doing his job well, he is villainized, excoriated, cursed, and given no props by Yahweh worshipers.

I’ll tell, you, there is no justice in the world.

John Branyan thinks that because Yahweh’s plans are opposed doesn’t mean that Yahweh is not “all-powerful.” If that is so, then that opposition is part of Yahweh’s plans and therefore He owns it.

What a scam!

20 Comments »

  1. I think John Brain-yawn thinks like he speaks: Rapidly jumping topics without any depth of thought.

    He literally couldn’t answer me what 1+1 is equal to, if that tells you the level of mind-crazy he exhibits.

    Liked by 2 people

    Comment by thespartanatheist — June 30, 2019 @ 11:22 am | Reply

  2. Interesting (but predictable) how he avoided addressing the question put to him. He really doesn’t like querstions that mess with his pantomime.

    Liked by 1 person

    Comment by john zande — June 30, 2019 @ 12:06 pm | Reply

  3. “John Branyan thinks that because Yahweh’s plans are opposed doesn’t mean that Yahweh is not “all-powerful.” If that is so, then that opposition is part of Yahweh’s plans and therefore He owns it.”

    Forgive me, but you don’t know what John Branyan thinks.

    What I said was that you are incorrect to interpret God’s allowing opposition to mean he is powerless to stop it.

    You keep writing though! Anyone, theist or atheist, who thinks that “purposes” exist anywhere but in our imaginations is sadly poorly informed.

    Like

    Comment by John Branyan — June 30, 2019 @ 2:48 pm | Reply

    • Correct, John. If god allows such opposition, despite his ability to stop it, then he doesn’t care to stop it. Ergo, he is not benevolent.

      And yes, god only exists in our minds. Any real existence is thus far a failed hypothesis.

      Like

      Comment by thespartanatheist — June 30, 2019 @ 5:26 pm | Reply

  4. Satan seems to me a rather cool character. Hey, in the holly buy-bull he makes this bet with the all powerful, all knowing god and we see poor old Job get dumped on big time. What sort of loving god would do that sort of crap to a true believer? Not one I’d freely worship and one I left on the side of the road many long years ago.

    Liked by 1 person

    Comment by Walter Kronkat — June 30, 2019 @ 5:15 pm | Reply

  5. Great post.

    I guess God wanted to make the emphasis that he is the good guy by allowing Satan to exist, never mind all the people who die from Satan’s evil hand, they are obviously just collateral damage.

    Like

    Comment by sklyjd — June 30, 2019 @ 5:48 pm | Reply

    • Satan doesn’t kill people. Only God kills people.
      This is why you atheists are so puzzling. You keep picking fights with the only being in the universe Who has the power of life and death.

      Like

      Comment by John Branyan — June 30, 2019 @ 6:32 pm | Reply

      • So what is it, God who makes the maniac rapist murder his victim or Satan? What about the crazy gunman in a school hall, is this Satan driving it and God simply deciding who dies? Sounds like a make it up as you go kind of story.

        Like

        Comment by sklyjd — July 1, 2019 @ 12:08 am | Reply

  6. “See, I set before you life and death. Choose life.”

    Obviously this life you talk about choosing is after death. How bazar that is, when you are living right now, and you are sure there is a better life after this one, how much of a percentage in your belief is that?

    For a start a heaven is not only extremely unscientific and extremely unlikely it tends to be a greedy and materialistic, and a bigoted attitude towards this precious life and has very little to offer.

    Not only that but if you were really serious about this other most desired better life you would reject all the scientifically advanced drugs and procedures that keep you alive for longer and as a consequence die earlier and reduce the pressure on the countries overworked and underfunded health systems. I must ask why would you care about contracting a cancer or disease, as you should welcome your entry as early as possible to the better life for eternity and mansions, of milk and honey in heaven with your Lord God.

    Obviously as most people want to live on Earth as long as possible most Christian people who still have half a brain realise just how ridiculous this heaven concept could turn out to be.

    Like

    Comment by sklyjd — July 1, 2019 @ 8:31 pm | Reply

  7. Oh how I enjoy reading these comments and this man’s futile attempts to defend the indefensible. Apparently God gave him a brain but does not expect him to actually use it. WOW!

    Like

    Comment by Gushopper — July 2, 2019 @ 9:05 am | Reply

    • Well, and your “photo” is perfect. makes you look a bit like a dog, however.

      On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 9:05 AM Class Warfare Blog wrote:

      >

      Like

      Comment by Steve Ruis — July 2, 2019 @ 9:11 am | Reply

  8. As Tom Waits says: “There ain’t no devil, that’s just God when he’s drunk.”

    Like

    Comment by Professor Chaos — July 8, 2019 @ 6:32 pm | Reply

    • And like the Hulk, we won’t like him when he gets angry … let alone, drunk and angry.

      Like

      Comment by Steve Ruis — July 9, 2019 @ 11:58 am | Reply

  9. All valid points.

    IMHO Satan might be just one aspect of God’s personality, his id perhaps. Satan/God also sets up the classic Good cop/Bad cop routine. In other words, we are being manipulated by God, and/or the creators of the story of Christianity, to think of God, our situation, and ourselves in a particular way. Most likely for the usual parochial and venal reasons.

    Like

    Comment by Art — July 14, 2019 @ 11:22 am | Reply


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