Class Warfare Blog

November 13, 2018

#10 of the 10 Reasons to Believe God Exists

A week and a half or so back I covered #1 on this list, so if you need to see where this list was posted and by whom, please consult that post. Here is #10!

  1. Purpose and Meaning. For anything to have purpose and meaning, God must exist. If Hawking is right in that the universe is all there is and there is nothing else, nothing, including his research, has any meaning or value. Meaning, value, and purpose are found only because God exists.

Now this is an argument! Step 1: Include your conclusion in your first premise. Ta da! “For anything to have purpose and meaning, God must exist.” I suggest that these people are making the fundamental error in their belief that purpose and meaning for their lives comes from without. If that is true then when someone dies, their purpose and meaning live on! How that happens is beyond me. Purpose and meaning are things that are created by humans. My argument? If humans were to disappear instantaneously, what would happen to all of our meaning and purpose? Would alien archeologists coming to investigate the remains of our civilization be able to determine what they were? (Basically I think they would conclude that city dwellers would have been obsessed with collecting dog shit in little plastic bags that they preserved in large plastic, wheeled tubs for some religious purpose as there seems to be no practical purpose for that.)

As a counter argument I offer the following from Jonathan Gamer:

The Existential Argument Against God’s Existence
(Jonathan Garner)

  1. It is a known fact that many people find their life and journey to be meaningless, purposeless, and many humans/animals find life not worth living/continuing.
    2. Premise 1 is very surprising on the hypothesis of classical theism, but not surprising on the hypothesis of indifference.
    3. The intrinsic probability of indifference is much greater than that of classical theism.
    4. Therefore, other evidence held equal, classical theism is very probably false.
    Clarification
    It is important to notice that Premise 1 isn’t so much concerned with objective values. In other words, perhaps every life really does have intrinsic value and purpose. Nevertheless, some people don’t see this.

And To Conclude …
The list’s author makes the truly astounding comment that:

“I could certainly list other reasons to believe in God’s existence. But these will suffice for now. (Stephen) Hawking was a man of great intellect. Yet, despite his great mental prowess, it is quite odd that he could never quite see the evidence for God. While he could see, he was quite blind. Hawking said that ‘religion is a fairy tale for those afraid of the dark.’ I believe John Lennox provided a stronger claim by noting that ‘atheism is a fairy tale for those afraid of the light.’”

These are not serious claims, of course, but opinions. And the comment “Yet, despite his great mental prowess (Hawking’s), it is quite odd that he could never quite see the evidence for God.” is just priceless considering the offering of the wimpy intellectual arguments of this list. The arguments were almost juvenile and certainly lacking in development even compared to the arguments available from the current crop of apologists. That a genius couldn’t see what a simpleton could, doesn’t bring the genius’s comments into dispute.

 

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30 Comments »

  1. What is the purpose and meaning of your existence, Steve?

    Like

    Comment by John Branyan — November 13, 2018 @ 9:58 am | Reply

    • Basically, I have none. What does that make you? ;o)

      Actually I have some relationship purposes and some work purposes. I also wish to die with no more regrets than I had when I was 20.

      On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 9:58 AM Class Warfare Blog wrote:

      >

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      Comment by Steve Ruis — November 13, 2018 @ 11:47 am | Reply

      • Is there any purpose outside of your personal goals?

        Like

        Comment by John Branyan — November 13, 2018 @ 12:12 pm | Reply

        • Nope. Possibly my parent’s had a purpose in creating me but they indicated that I might well have been an accident of failed birth controls.

          On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 12:12 PM Class Warfare Blog wrote:

          >

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          Comment by Steve Ruis — November 13, 2018 @ 12:13 pm | Reply

          • That’s essentially the point of the argument. If there’s no God, we’re all accidents. Therefore, we should have no regrets.

            Like

            Comment by John Branyan — November 13, 2018 @ 12:18 pm | Reply

            • You mean if there is a god, then I should never feel regret over a bad choice. I thought this was a major theme of the OT; the Israelites and their leaders kept making bad choices, which labeled them as “stiff necked” “unwilling to take the yoke” of Yahweh worship.

              On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 12:18 PM Class Warfare Blog wrote:

              >

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              Comment by Steve Ruis — November 13, 2018 @ 1:01 pm | Reply

              • If there is no God, there are no “bad choices”.
                Do you not understand the argument?

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                Comment by John Branyan — November 13, 2018 @ 1:07 pm | Reply

            • And your point is … ???

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              Comment by Nan — November 13, 2018 @ 5:42 pm | Reply

              • My point is…what I said.

                If there is no God there are no “bad choices”. My purpose is whatever I declare it to be. There’s nothing to regret when I’m determining right and wrong for myself.

                Like

                Comment by John Branyan — November 13, 2018 @ 7:37 pm | Reply

                • So, you just blame it all on your god? Isn’t that a little “my dog ate my homework-ish?”

                  On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 7:37 PM Class Warfare Blog wrote:

                  >

                  Liked by 1 person

                  Comment by Steve Ruis — November 13, 2018 @ 7:43 pm | Reply

                  • Nope.
                    There’s nothing to “blame” on anyone.

                    Like

                    Comment by John Branyan — November 13, 2018 @ 8:09 pm | Reply

                    • So, no blame … no responsibility … it is all due to your god. Interesting life, that.

                      On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 8:09 PM Class Warfare Blog wrote:

                      >

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                      Comment by Steve Ruis — November 14, 2018 @ 10:41 am

                    • No, Steve. There is no God. That’s the argument.
                      No God means no blame and no regret.

                      Like

                      Comment by John Branyan — November 14, 2018 @ 10:51 am

                    • You wouldn’t regret drink driving and killing your family in a crash?

                      Interesting.

                      Like

                      Comment by john zande — November 14, 2018 @ 11:16 am

                    • I have regrets because I am a theist.
                      Atheism has no basis for regrets.

                      Like

                      Comment by John Branyan — November 14, 2018 @ 12:08 pm

                    • JB … you are making statements that make no sense. Atheism means one thing and one thing only, i.e., A lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. It has absolutely nothing to do with how a non-believing person lives their life (e.g., regrets, blame, choices).

                      You are desperately trying to connect how a person views life and its circumstances to a belief in (your) “God” — when it has absolutely NOTHING to do with that. Why are you unable to see — and accept — that?

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                      Comment by Nan — November 14, 2018 @ 12:20 pm

                    • I am not connecting anything to “my God”. Steve said that purpose is determined by the individual. If that’s true, what could anyone possibly regret?

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                      Comment by John Branyan — November 14, 2018 @ 12:48 pm

                    • You wouldn’t regret drink driving and killing your family in a crash?

                      Interesting.

                      Like

                      Comment by john zande — November 14, 2018 @ 4:31 pm

                    • You wouldn’t regret drink driving and killing your family?

                      Typical.

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                      Comment by John Branyan — November 14, 2018 @ 4:32 pm

                    • I would.

                      No god required.

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                      Comment by john zande — November 14, 2018 @ 4:37 pm

                    • Interesting.
                      Hurricanes and cancer kill people. Do you regret them as well?

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                      Comment by John Branyan — November 14, 2018 @ 4:42 pm

                    • Why would I, they’re not the result of my bad choices.

                      So, why do you need a god to feel regret for getting drunk and killing your family?

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                      Comment by john zande — November 14, 2018 @ 4:45 pm

                    • Bad choices??!!!
                      Hurricanes and drunk drivers are both determined by the godless universe. Where are you getting the ability to make choices???

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                      Comment by John Branyan — November 14, 2018 @ 4:49 pm

                    • Again: why do you need a god to feel regret for getting drunk and killing your family?

                      Like

                      Comment by john zande — November 14, 2018 @ 4:51 pm

                    • Where did you get the ability to make choices?!!!

                      Like

                      Comment by John Branyan — November 14, 2018 @ 4:54 pm

                    • Okay, as it appears we’re entering the BRANYAN-100-COMMENT-SONG-AND-DANCE-EVASION-ROUTINE, I’ll just leave you playing with yourself.

                      Like

                      Comment by john zande — November 14, 2018 @ 4:55 pm

                    • A difficult question was posed…
                      Run!! Run away!!!

                      Like

                      Comment by John Branyan — November 14, 2018 @ 4:57 pm

  2. A genius can’t see what a simpleton could. Yet the simpleton has to read and write and comment on millions of pages of explanatory text to make sense of his imaginations.
    The Christian story is about a situation where “no one believes, but everyone believes that everyone else believes. Or alternatively, everyone is ignorant to whether the emperor has clothes on or not, but believes that everyone else is not ignorant.” A masterful hoax illustrated beautifully by Hans Christian Anderson. The meaning of life is perpetuated by asking. Until one is asked it is never considered.

    Liked by 2 people

    Comment by jim- — November 13, 2018 @ 11:07 am | Reply

  3. It strikes that, upon presenting this angle, the theist appears to be admiting that they have nothing in their life that brings them genuine pleasure.

    And is it not our highest moral obligation to leave a better world than the one we entered? I enjoy internal plumbing, electricity, universities, roads, transportation, the internet, food and water at my fingertips, etc. BECAUSE of the generations before me.

    Liked by 1 person

    Comment by john zande — November 13, 2018 @ 4:31 pm | Reply

  4. The meaning of life is my personal least favorite Monty Python movie. I prefer the Life of Brain and their Quest for the Holy Grail.
    I stopped buying into this doG stuff decades ago. Do I have regrets? Yes, I know I do. Big deal though, it is and has been my life, my choices. Of course I made some choices I’d not want to do over, but I’m still here and my life IS my very own purpose. I don’t have some doG to blame for my choices. He/she/it best not even try to claim any fault, as the choices I made were mine alone. Oh I may have had some outside push, things like peer pressure do exist, still, I have made choices that involved zero peer pressure to make. Hells bells, some of my very own choices had peer pressure to not make. I never cared for old “blue eyes” Frank Sinatra, but he did one song that I almost sort of like and it is about regrets.
    My life, my choices. Some were good ones, others not so much, but damn it, they were MY choices.

    Like

    Comment by Walter Kronkat — November 14, 2018 @ 4:32 pm | Reply


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