Uncommon Sense

January 27, 2018

Breaking News: Religious Faith No Longer Needed!

I ran across an amazing breakthrough yesterday and needed some time to process it. Apparently the existence of a god or gods is now proven and therefore religious faith is no longer needed or wanted! Why operate upon a basis of faith when one has proof?

The document under discussion was posted at The Christian Post under their “Christian Evidence” column. The title? Need Proof That God Exists? Check This Out! The subtitle was “If you ever needed proof that God exists – here’s 30 of them.” What followed was astonishing. The first four on the list were the usual suspects: the ontological argument, the teleological argument, the fine tuning argument, etc. but then things got interesting in the form of 25 new proofs never before published! Here for example is #5:

  1. The Golden Ratio. In God’s creation, there exists a “Golden Ratio” (the mathematical constant of 1.618) that is exhibited in a multitude of shapes, numbers, and patterns whose relationship can only be the result of the omnipotent, good, and all-wise God of Scripture.

And here is #15:

15: Specific Bible verses have numbers and themes in the text of the Bible that seem to line up with the locations where the verses are found. This requires a supernatural author. For example, Matthew 24:42 is about the Day of the Lord. It is the 24th chapter, it’s about the DAY (24 hours) of the Lord; and the 42nd verse (reverse of 24) is the key verse to watch out for we don’t know when this DAY will occur. These three references to things related to 24 are all found in the 24,000th verse of the Bible (now that really sets it apart)! Mathematics shows it’s statistically impossible for this to be chance occurrence (calculated at billions to one could not be coincidence).

The sheer breathlessness of the presentation of these glaringly obvious proofs points to the author of the list being a home-schooled high school valedictorian. But I might be wrong in that guess (unlike the author).

Let’s just take just these two apart to see what we can see.

The exposition here seems somewhat incomplete as geometry is loaded with the fingerprints of the Lord and not just in the Golden Ratio. Take for example the fact that the interior angles of a square, actually any rectangle, add up to 360°, the same number of degrees as in a circle! What are the odds of that happening?! And there is nothing round about a rectangle! Parallelogram’s interior angles also add up to  360° even though it has no curves and not even a single right angle! Triangle’s interior angles add up to 180°, exactly half of those in the rectangles and has a different number of sides! Surely the Lord’s Creation is exposed here for all to see.

Uh, no. I just don’t think one can take mathematical oddities and follow them with “therefore God.” I suggest this person read the book Flatland to find out the real mystical properties of geometry.

Uh, no. It is highly unlikely that the authors of said scriptures embedded information in the numbers referred to. For one, nobody has ever seen the original manuscripts and copyists make mistakes, so these numbers could have gotten jumbled. More importantly, chapter and verse numbers were inserted into Greek manuscripts of the New Testament in the fucking 16th century. Robert Estienne (Robert Stephanus) was the first to number the verses within each chapter, his verse numbers entering printed editions in 1551 (New Testament) and 1571 (Hebrew Bible). Embedding knowledge in numbers that did not exist is not another miracle, by the way.

Well, this is disappointing. I thought these proofs would finally put faith to rest, but sadly it was not to be. It is encouraging, though, that the ranks of apologists are so thin they are recruiting teenagers to the task.

I will keep other examples from this list at hand for occasions in which I think you, dear reader, need a laugh. (Oh, go ahead, read the whole list if you want, but don’t blame me if you pull a muscle laughing. Take it slow and just read a few at a time and you should be okay.)




  1. You mentioned homeschooling. I am worried about the hoard of uneducated and deeply indoctrinated young people coming out of these mostly religious drilling home educations. They are convinced what they were told is the unshakable truth and it is mighty hard to show them reality. Even when confronted with evidence that disagrees with what they had pounded into them, they just refused to accept it. That leads me to wonder what will happen to the US as we drift steadily backwards in education and the rest of the world moves forward with science and knowledge. Hugs

    Liked by 2 people

    Comment by Scottie — January 27, 2018 @ 8:43 am | Reply

    • I share your concern, Scottie, but I also see corrections built into the system. Many recovering Christians report that when they first get out of their bubble (often to attend university) they awaken to what has been done to them. A bucket of cold water in the face, intellectually at least, often does wake one up.

      There is hope.

      Liked by 2 people

      Comment by Steve Ruis — January 27, 2018 @ 8:52 am | Reply

    • Scottie..I share your fears. We are already being left behind ( no pun intended..ha) due to the ignorance of the masses, which I believe is due to poor education and apathy. Free education like most of Europe has and not home schooling would certainly help. But this far right religious and conservative takeover will destroy our country if it is not stopped or slowed down. China is on a roll and we could end up like the Middle East when religion ruined them long ago in the past.

      Liked by 2 people

      Comment by Mary — January 27, 2018 @ 9:16 am | Reply

  2. Man seems to be always searching for “meaning” and it often involves supposed codes, patterns and math as indications of the supernatural. The religious just can’t get to a place where meaning is found in their individual life achievements, being it a discovery of some medical cure or giving love and support to family and friends. They are looking outside for meaning and proof where there is none, for it is in themselves.

    Liked by 2 people

    Comment by Mary — January 27, 2018 @ 9:08 am | Reply

    • It would be nice, if one were searching for information in numbers, that the effort is done with some contact with reality. Thinking that the original authors included chapter and verse numbers is woefully ignorant. Much of scripture didn’t even include punctuation or spaces between words..

      On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 9:08 AM, Class Warfare Blog wrote:


      Liked by 2 people

      Comment by Steve Ruis — January 27, 2018 @ 9:11 am | Reply

      • Thinking that the original authors included chapter and verse numbers is woefully ignorant.

        From your perspective … and my perspective … and most likely several thousand other perspectives, your statement is true. BUT … don’t underestimate Christian reasoning. The “numbers” that are there were given by God to the humans who assembled that particular version of the Bible.

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by Nan — January 27, 2018 @ 11:26 am | Reply

        • Right and he waited 1500 years before “inspiring” a guy to go ahead and write them in. Sheesh!

          On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 11:26 AM, Class Warfare Blog wrote:



          Comment by Steve Ruis — January 27, 2018 @ 7:00 pm | Reply

  3. This “Christian evidence” might be indicative of something quite profound and contrary to what apologists intended – that the empirical argument against theism (i.e. “Where’s the factual proof of God?”) is increasingly effective in its critique of religion. In warfare, defensive positions are always constructed most stoutly to protect a combatant’s greatest vulnerability; and, counterattack is often used to eliminate the greatest threat to a combatant in lieu of adequate defense.

    Liked by 1 person

    Comment by Robert A. Vella — January 27, 2018 @ 12:08 pm | Reply

    • I think you give them too much credit. I think their approach is more visceral and less intellectual.

      On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 12:08 PM, Class Warfare Blog wrote:


      Liked by 1 person

      Comment by Steve Ruis — January 27, 2018 @ 7:01 pm | Reply

      • Hmm, I wouldn’t categorize “Christian evidence” as intellectual; and, as far as combative intent goes, it doesn’t take a genius to engage in basic strategy and tactics (which Dominionists are well-versed in).

        That said, my religious debate experience probably isn’t as extensive as yours. What I do know is that the religious folks in my personal life (which are many) are most frustrated by the empirical standard of proof for God. They really struggle to answer that question because the “faith” argument is irrelevant to the non-believers whom they’re trying to convince.

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by Robert A. Vella — January 27, 2018 @ 8:16 pm | Reply

        • Intellectual simple refers to a chosen mode of address, one doesn’t have to be good at it, certainly not a genius, to try to think through things rather than going by a “gut feeling” or “faith.” I think these efforts are so clumsy because the apologists take an intellectual approach at which that have had very little experience.

          Your mention of Dominionists was interesting. I find them quite scary. Most Christians act very little on their faith. Those people have big plans and some of them are trying to pull them off.

          On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 8:17 PM, Class Warfare Blog wrote:


          Liked by 1 person

          Comment by Steve Ruis — January 28, 2018 @ 7:38 am | Reply

          • Yes, Dominionists are scary. From what I’ve been able to discern, they sit atop the Christian fundamentalist hierarchy directing their churches while pushing their theocracy at the political level – all surreptitiously, of course.

            Liked by 1 person

            Comment by Robert A. Vella — January 28, 2018 @ 2:14 pm | Reply

  4. I wonder which language translation carries those 24’s and 24,000. I bet it is the English versions here in America where they believe that everything including the 24 hour day revolve around them

    Liked by 2 people

    Comment by jim- — January 27, 2018 @ 2:17 pm | Reply

    • Well that and the Jews only counted 12 hours in a day, so where he/she got the 24 is specious at best.

      On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 2:17 PM, Class Warfare Blog wrote:


      Liked by 2 people

      Comment by Steve Ruis — January 27, 2018 @ 7:04 pm | Reply

  5. You see, you see what you’re missing out on?

    Liked by 2 people

    Comment by john zande — January 27, 2018 @ 3:50 pm | Reply

    • You are a terrible tease.

      On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 3:50 PM, Class Warfare Blog wrote:


      Liked by 1 person

      Comment by Steve Ruis — January 27, 2018 @ 7:01 pm | Reply

  6. Hey, I can do a better mathematical proof of God: for a function e^x, it’s derivative is the same e^x, and its integral to infinity is the same e^x (plus a constant). This obviously means that e^x is God, since it is immutable, and it’s a trinity (original function, derivative, integral) and it’s one. And note how “e” is the first letter of many ancient words denoting God: El, Elah, Elohim – and what is “x” if not a cross???? And even “^” stands for power: the higher X ascends, the higher power it is!!


    Comment by List of X — January 27, 2018 @ 8:29 pm | Reply

    • Egad, that is exponentially better that the Golden Ratio proof!

      On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 8:29 PM, Class Warfare Blog wrote:



      Comment by Steve Ruis — January 28, 2018 @ 7:39 am | Reply

  7. If they actually claim these “proofs” are “never before published”, they’re mistaken about that too; I’m sure I’ve seen the golden ratio one before.


    Comment by D.T. Nova — January 27, 2018 @ 10:10 pm | Reply

    • They did not make that claim, that was my contribution (for dramatic effect). (When people encounter something they have never seen before, they assume that it must be new.) I tend to think that there is nothing new under the sun when it comes to these things. Most are old arguments with new window dressings.

      On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 10:10 PM, Class Warfare Blog wrote:



      Comment by Steve Ruis — January 28, 2018 @ 7:41 am | Reply

  8. So, 30, yes count them, 30 ‘proofs’ the xtian doG exists. Wow, I am almost, semi, sort of impressed by this. Well, except for one small bit.What small but you ask? Well, the very fact that I do not believe in any of the man made doGs. I do like actual four legged dogs, but will always prefer cats.
    Funny how as church attendance declines, they church leaders work over time to invent new way their doG actually is ‘real’. Well, when the ship sinks and the money supply falls like a stone from the top of the tallest building, I suppose one does tend to grasp at straws.
    The best way to make an atheist, have the person read every word in that holly buy-bull, cover to cover.
    I would never ban religion, I just refuse to buy into any of them. I prefer to try and treat all I meet the way I want to be treated. I am 10,000% certain that attitude predates by many centuries every religion known to humans. Let organized religion just fade away, as it will. Look how many other religions have fallen by the way side over time, the current big ones will as well, not in my life time, what little is left of it, but they will fall away. Just be patient.
    Oh, on a tangent to that last sentence, you know old doctors never die, they just lose their patients. (ducks back to his korner for cover from throw objects)

    Liked by 2 people

    Comment by Walter Kronkat — January 28, 2018 @ 3:04 am | Reply

    • We ban Ponzi Schemes, crooked gambling games, scams of all kinds. Most “organized” religions encourage donations for “services” rendered and the services have no basis in fact. We do not allow people to sell medicines that have no effect (we are still working on homeopathy “medicines”). So, I think an argument can be made for banning certain religious practices. The only reason a great many practices are tolerated (such as refusing to vaccinate children for religious reasons) is because they are religious, not because there is any basis in fact (quite the contrary).

      You are oh, so right about reading the Bible. This has been mentioned often enough over the past few of centuries (Thomas Paine, Mark Twain, etc.)

      On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 3:04 AM, Class Warfare Blog wrote:


      Liked by 1 person

      Comment by Steve Ruis — January 28, 2018 @ 7:47 am | Reply

  9. Numerology nonsense, on par with a H channel presentation, is proof? Gee I’m convinced…

    Convinced we have too may idiots.


    Comment by shelldigger — January 28, 2018 @ 5:14 am | Reply

    • Unfortunately it is both funny and sad that people accept such things as support for their beliefs.

      On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 5:14 AM, Class Warfare Blog wrote:



      Comment by Steve Ruis — January 28, 2018 @ 7:48 am | Reply

  10. It is utterly amazing what’s going on in this country! Proof of what a lack of good education (which includes basic science), responsible parenting (which includes teaching a child to think critically and setting that example), racism and religious extremism can do. The fact that Trump has many supporters says it all in a nutshell. This is what happens when you have a country filled with too many idiots.

    Liked by 1 person

    Comment by Mary — January 28, 2018 @ 7:28 am | Reply

    • Actually I understand Trump supporters. Here is my logic (it is simple enough). Ordinary people have been getting screwed for the past 50 years by both Repubs and Dems. Hillary Clinton represented “more of the same.” (She did.) And we are allowed only two candidates with a serious chance of winning. Trump was the other candidate, the “non-status quo” candidate. I think voting for him was an indication of how frustrated people were. Think about how racist this country is and then realize we elected a Black president … twice, based upon a promise of “Hope and Change.” We got, basically, more of the status quo. So, voting for Trump is no more outlandish for many than voting for Obama. Once he got elected, confirmation bias and the “lemon car effect” explain his continued support.

      I do not think they are idiots … desperate, but not idiots.

      On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 7:28 AM, Class Warfare Blog wrote:


      Liked by 3 people

      Comment by Steve Ruis — January 28, 2018 @ 7:54 am | Reply

      • I think your description applies only to 15-20% of Trump voters at most (7-9% of the total electorate): there is a sizable fraction of American voters who wouldn’t vote for a Democrat even if Satan himself was the only other choice. If Trump voters in general were ordinary people upset about the status quo, they’d figure out by now that Trump represents the same status quo, only with lots more trash-talking.

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by List of X — January 29, 2018 @ 1:54 pm | Reply

        • Well, I think you are correct there. I guess I was describing “enthusiastic Trump voters.” This is the quandary many evangelicals were in. Nobody in their church had voted for a Democrat in memory. To do so was a betrayal of all they believed, so, there’s the rest of them. This si the problem with the two party system: some people would vote for Satan if he was put up as the candidate of a major party.

          On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 1:54 PM, Class Warfare Blog wrote:


          Liked by 1 person

          Comment by Steve Ruis — January 29, 2018 @ 1:58 pm | Reply

  11. I agree with you about the initial support for him. But now after all has been said and done…..

    Liked by 1 person

    Comment by Mary — January 28, 2018 @ 8:17 am | Reply

    • Many people hide behind “give him a chance” and “they are trying to bring him down” illusions. (Name a president the opposition wasn’t trying the bring down.) His “attempts” at doing something, even the ones that fail (the Wall, the Muslim ban, the tax “reform”), all are approved of by this cohort and massively supported by the propaganda machine of the conservatives (Fox (sic) News, Breitbart, Drudge, etc.). And they have been tutored through their “faith” to resist the secular machine, so they can do this with one hand tied behind their backs.

      On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 8:17 AM, Class Warfare Blog wrote:


      Liked by 3 people

      Comment by Steve Ruis — January 28, 2018 @ 8:25 am | Reply

  12. Absurd, to say the least. I love that their “proofs” are always riddled with logical fallacies; makes it so much easier to debunk and protect my mind against idiocy. The verse-numbering thing is ridiculous, since of course the verses weren’t numbered originally (and days weren’t always measured in 24 hours — and might not be in the future either; who knows?)

    I looked up the list, and it is just as bad as you indicate. They even use the worst possible argument: the Moral argument. And they included the reason why their argument fails: “If the evolutionary worldview were true, we would be advanced animals acting on chemical impulses.” Oops. That’s exactly true. And they assert “absolute moral standards” exist among humans. Really? Where? When? When have any TWO humans agreed on all moral standards, much less the entirety of humanity? Right this minute, we’ve got dozens of countries electing LGBTQ people into higher office (and we’re cheering for them), and dozens of other countries imprisoning them for even admitting to gay feelings (and the people there are cheering about that too).

    Liked by 1 person

    Comment by Anderson Connors — January 29, 2018 @ 1:16 pm | Reply

    • Here is my argument from morality:

      The Argument From Morality
      1. A human experience of morality is observed.
      2. God is the best or only explanation for this moral experience.
      3. Since moralities differ from culture to culture, either there is no god or there are many gods.
      4. Therefore, God does not exist (Occam’s Razor).

      Even better is:

      The Argument From Moral Autonomy
      (This is from James Rachel’s “God and Moral Autonomy:”)
      1. We are moral agents with moral autonomy and a responsibility to exercise it
      2. Abandoning one’s moral autonomy is immoral
      3. God is a perfectly good being worthy of worship
      4. Worship is the recognition of one as inferior and subordinate to a greater being
      5. Worship of God includes the total abandonment of one’s moral autonomy in favor of blind, non-questioning obedience of God
      6. This is immoral, unless we can continuously be sure the being we are worshipping is (perfectly) good, and that the being we are worshipping is indeed a (or the) “God”
      7. To continuously evaluate whether a being is good requires moral judgment, which requires moral autonomy
      8. Therefore it is not possible to continuously evaluate if a being is good while also worshipping it
      9. Therefore, worshipping necessarily requires abandoning one’s moral responsibility, which is immoral
      10. Therefore, no being is worthy of worship
      11. Therefore, God does not exist
      In short – worship makes it impossible to know the object of worship is good, and a non-good object of worship isn’t worthy of worship. It is said that it can be known that God is good, and that God is worthy of worship, which is a contradiction, which cannot exist.

      We can sling philosophical leather better than they!

      Liked by 2 people

      Comment by Steve Ruis — January 29, 2018 @ 1:30 pm | Reply

      • On your first one (“3. Since moralities differ from culture to culture, either there is no god or there are many gods”), a logical addition would be “…or God is amoral — doesn’t care about our morality.” I could envision a scientific experiment in which a “creator” made something just out of curiosity to observe the results. When scientists create a mold culture in the lab, are they checking to ensure it is moral? Have they even wondered whether mold has morality?

        (Tongue in cheek, obviously, but if we’re talking about a being “so much higher than ourselves”, it stands to reason that our morality wouldn’t even enter into its mind.)

        Love the second one — and I think I’ve seen it before. I only disagree with the last step. God could still exist; it just wouldn’t be a being worthy of worship. For example, if the YHWH of the Old Testament existed, I wouldn’t worship it or submit to it. I would fight it at every turn. (And all I’d have to do is hide in a Garden; he couldn’t find the only two people on the world there; he had to call out for them.)

        Liked by 1 person

        Comment by Anderson Connors — January 29, 2018 @ 2:21 pm | Reply

  13. Not only did he have to call out to find them, he acts surprised at what they have done (“What have you done?”) As if he didn’t know already! There is one author that claims that Yahweh was just trying to get someone to fess up to what they had done, but nobody stood up for the team; they all passed the buck. But why would he even bother if he were omniscient? Would he not already know how they would respond, including what they would say? There are so many holes in this narrative.

    Another si that Adam and Eve are claimed to have committed Original Sin. Original as in first. But apparently we learn later that half the angels in Heaven rebel because they were expected to take a position south of “men,” and I have to presume this demand was made before Yahweh curse all mankind for ever and ever, so a fucking war ensues … in Heaven … and yet Adam and Eve are tagged with the “first sin,” sin being opposing God’s will? WTF? They can’t even get their stores straight, let alone make a coherent case for their god’s existence.

    Liked by 1 person

    Comment by Steve Ruis — January 30, 2018 @ 10:38 am | Reply

    • There are so many holes in this narrative. Not only in THAT narrative, but the entire bible!

      BTW, the story of the rebellious angels is from the Book of Enoch (which, by the way, was considered spurious by the guys that put the bible together — yet many stories that circulate among Christianity are taken directly from this source).

      Liked by 1 person

      Comment by Nan — January 30, 2018 @ 11:16 am | Reply

      • I believe it is also mentioned in Revelations without the cause. Cause is irrelevant–oppose god’s will for any reason and you are sinning–but if because of man’s placement in the hierarchy it does place the rebellion in time (before Adam and Eve’s contretemps).

        On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 11:16 AM, Class Warfare Blog wrote:



        Comment by Steve Ruis — January 30, 2018 @ 1:16 pm | Reply

  14. From; mathematicalsignsofgod.wordpress.com, or type 22.5 cosmos. Please view my findings proving God created the Cosmos, all based on a 360 degree protractor. It starts with the facts that, on a Mercator Projection Map (map used by navigators), when one puts a protractor on Easter Island ( I first did this Easter Holy Week,2014. Can not remember the exact day), it shows that the Pyramids of Giza are 22.5 degrees northeast. (22.5 is 1/2 of all important 45 degrees,the angle to make a picture frame, the strongest angle for bracing in engineering, etc.). This line continues to the Salt/Dead Sea,. This line also passes over the intersect-point of a cross of valleys and rivers north of Macchu Pichu. Easter Island/Rapa Nui (meaning “navel of the world”) is all rocky cliffs, and it’s peninsulas align in a straight line to form a perfect 45/90 triangle. Just like a carpenter’s square. These peninsulas are tilted exactly at 22.5 degrees on map. This island was discovered April 5,1722 Easter sunday. The eastern-most peninsula and point of island is exactly 90 degrees south of the Dine’ (Navajo) Holy Mountains intersect-point at holy mountain by the “Four Corner State” borders. All the Dine’ Holy Mountains are aligned at mathematical angles to this point; at 15 degrees,one at 50, another at 36, etc.( see book at my site). From the Dine’ Center Holy Mountain,one of the oldest sites known, Great Zimbabwe,Africa, is 22.5 degrees southeast , go 22.5 degrees northeast, that line hits the northernmost point of the EuroAsian Landmass. 67.5 degrees northwest of Great Zimbabwe is Stonehenge Complex. This mathematical pattern continues around globe to connect all famous Holy Mountains, landmarks, Holy Sites of ALL the world. For instance, Mecca is 18 degrees from Easter Island, and that 18 degree continues up to passover Amritsar ( Sikh Holyland) and it’s Geological Geometric. This geometric pattern connects Wittenberg (Martin Luther’s protest site) in a 90 degree line to Assisi, Geologic of Rome, down to geometric right angled Lake Chad. Also connected together mathematically is Fatima,Lourdes,Medjugorge,Guadalupe,Vatican,Mt. Sinai, Istanbul,Lassa,Tirupati( Hindu holy site), Budd Gaya (Buddha site), Tsion Ethiopia, Ankor Wat, Holy Mountains of China, Jerusalem,Mt.Ararat, Moundville Alabama,etc. Jesus Christ is the center of the geometric message, with it’s center being Easter Island. This pattern of God’s continues into the Heavens. please go to my site at mathematicalsignsofgod.wordpress.com. This is God’s Revelation, take the time study it, see that it is true. Sorry it is crudely produced, but I have to get this message out. Thank You, David Brenton, born June 10,1966 ( 6/10/66) That is three sixes.Just so you know. Also, in St. John’s Revelation, he talks about a guy with a reed,’ measuring a wall thereof …. 1oo cubits,and, 40 cubits, and 4 cubits….’ on graph paper, this makes a 22.5 degree angle. I have not read your conversation here,and I do not know your politics, just make sure you all do exactly what Jesus commanded in the New Testament King James Version.


    Comment by mathematicalsigns — February 6, 2018 @ 1:13 pm | Reply

    • IMO, a lot of wasted energy in process here.

      Liked by 1 person

      Comment by Nan — February 6, 2018 @ 1:46 pm | Reply

      • Gosh, do you think? Before I got three words into it, I had a premonition that the author was male. It is amazing what the male of the species can do with too much free time.


        Comment by Steve Ruis — February 6, 2018 @ 1:48 pm | Reply

        • HA! You said it … I didn’t. 😋


          Comment by Nan — February 6, 2018 @ 2:07 pm | Reply

  15. What does IMO mean? Are you guys making fun of me, and these undebunkable truths ?


    Comment by mathematicalsigns — February 6, 2018 @ 2:13 pm | Reply

    • IMO=In My Opinion. No comment on your other question.


      Comment by Nan — February 6, 2018 @ 2:29 pm | Reply

  16. WTF……?

    Liked by 1 person

    Comment by Mary — February 6, 2018 @ 3:32 pm | Reply

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