Class Warfare Blog

November 8, 2013

Ignorance of Islam

Filed under: Religion — Steve Ruis @ 8:30 am
Tags: , , , ,

I am being “fair and balanced” today. I am posting twice, once about Christian fundamentalist ignorance and this one about ignorance of Islam. SPR

Many in this country seem to claim that Islam is a religion of peace and that only certain fundamentalists are advocating or practicing violence. It is not surprising that we are ignorant of the Quran/Koran in this country considering that Christians in this country are generally ignorant of what is in their own bible, let alone in the bible of another religion. (Curiously, Christians are lumped into a category of being “People of the Book,” by Muslins. You’d think they would read the thing.)

Here are the only two things one must know to be able to interpret the impact of Islam:

1. The definition of a “good” Muslim is how much they conform to the teachings of the Quran/Koran. The more they conform, the better they are. The more they submit to the will of Allah, the better a Muslin they are. Period.

2. To avoid the contradictions obvious in Christian Literature, the Quran/Koran is set up differently and around a concept called abrogation. Basically, if there is a conflict in the Quran/Koran, the later statement supersedes the earlier one. (For you Southerners, Islam’s got its own nullification, built right in.)

Apparently all of the earlier peace speaking surahs in the Quran/Koran, the ones so lovingly quoted by the “Islam means peace” crowd, have been abrogated by the later “kill the infidel, rule the world” surahs.

Islam doesn’t mean “peace.” Islam means “submission.” Literally, the word “Islam” means submission. In order for Islam to rule the world, all must submit.

All “good Muslims” believe this.

Any questions?

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19 Comments »

  1. “In order for Islam to rule the world, all must submit.”

    But like Christianity’s claim, this submission must derive from one’s own free will. Not all Muslims believe in forced submission, at least not with the “infidels”.

    Comment by lbwoodgate — November 8, 2013 @ 9:38 am | Reply

    • Ah, but it is in the Quran. The preamble saying that no one would be force was abrogated by later text which says submit or die.

      PS We’ve moved (again)! Just change the Apt # from 28C to 17A (110 feet down and about 30 feet east). Effective Date: October 1, 2013

      *Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.* ************** Steve Ruis

      Comment by stephenpruis — November 8, 2013 @ 10:03 am | Reply

    • Yes, most muslims use this get-out-of-jail-free card all the time, arguing that islam isn’t a danger to our rights and freedoms because no one is forcing anyone to submit to islam directly (if these people reject the truth and burn for it in the after-life, then that’s their choice, right?). Perhaps this lack of personal accountability may help explain why the muslim majority supports the idea that having submitted willingly or not, we really should institute sharia law!

      Look, Ma: no hands! It’s not me adversely undermining your rights and freedoms (I am a follower of the religion of peace and here’s the card to prove it)… it’s sharia!

      Comment by tildeb — November 8, 2013 @ 10:34 am | Reply

      • ” the muslim majority supports the idea that having submitted willingly or not, we really should institute sharia law!”

        I’m not aware of any governing entity in this country under the threat of being run by Sharia law, are you? Engaging in a little fear-mongering are we tildeb?

        Comment by lbwoodgate — November 8, 2013 @ 12:47 pm | Reply

        • No, lbwoodgate,I’m not.

          By the muslim majority, I am speaking globally, and yes the PEW forum shows that where islam is favoured in the constitution, so too is almost universal support for sharia. Where islam is not favoured in a constitution, support for sharia varies directly by how devout – how good – the muslim is.

          These are factual statements. By pretending these are simply the opinions of someone wishing to fear-monger, you play the role of someone willing to dismiss having to deal directly with this unpleasant, anti-Enlightenment set of values active in the world.

          Is support for sharia a problem? Well, if we are talking about good muslims (and we are) then yes, this support is a problem because it translates into creating and sustaining a pool of people willing to act in its defense… local people, neighbours, even… that we deem as ‘terrorists’. And those who become ‘radicalized’ from the muslim community are to its pernicious effect because of their willingness (and susceptibility) to be a good muslim who doesn’t just pay lip service to islamic values outlined in sharia law but is willing to act on them. If you refuse to understand this link, then you refuse to understand why islam is such a problem to those of us who value the principle in law of individual autonomy. It
          s not fear-mongering, lbwoodgate; it’s a call to wake up.

          Comment by tildeb — November 8, 2013 @ 1:57 pm | Reply

          • “By pretending these are simply the opinions of someone wishing to fear-monger, you play the role of someone willing to dismiss having to deal directly with this unpleasant, anti-Enlightenment set of values active in the world. “

            Your presumptuous bastard. I dismiss nothing.

            First let’s be clear here. I never suggested that states that are predominantly Muslim will not have Sharia law or lean strongly in its favor. In fact, I even implied as much in my original comment on this post.

            But your comments were open-ended as if that could happen here in the Western Hemisphere or even in European countries where Muslims remain small minorities. Please prey tell how such minorities are going to impose their will on the majority. Shock and awe them?

            I understand the concern and people need to be vigilant but you’re an alarmist and think only you see the creeping menace that no else does. It’s conspiratorial in nature and I just don’t buy it. I am awake and am watching people like you as much as I do other extremists.

            In an ideal world we would be fortunate if the Christian right and the Islamic extremists wipe each other out in their hate for anything that doesn’t fit within their world view. Sadly though, such an engagement will drag innocent people into the fray as all violent upheavals do. For that, both sides are at fault.

            Comment by lbwoodgate — November 8, 2013 @ 3:01 pm | Reply

            • Presumptuous bastard? Not at all.

              You quote me accusing you of playing “the role of someone willing to dismiss having to deal directly with this unpleasant, anti-Enlightenment set of values.”

              Your response? Well, it’s rather revealing.

              You state as if true that I’m “an alarmist”, that I only see a “creeping menace” no one else does, that my opinion is “conspiratorial in nature”. Having settled that I must be as delusional as any other conspiratorial wing nut to try to discredit me rather than what I’m saying, you then point out that you are “watching people” like me as you do other “extremists”.

              It seems my presumption was well-founded, don’t you think?

              In several urban areas in England where neighbourhood numbers of muslims are significant, what do we find? We find sharia courts. We find sharia ‘police’ patrolling areas. We find political accommodationists actively exerting their public office power enabling sharia while keeping actual police investigations into complaints about them (and sharia enforcement people) to a bare minimum… if at all. That youknow absolutely nothing about this I suspect is because you don;t want to be identified as a conspiratorial wing nut, right?

              Here in Canada, we’ve fought a political battle to keep sharia courts from opening up with legal recognition in Ontario urban centers. In France and Germany and Denmark, we find underground sharia courts operating without official sanction.

              The ‘creeping menace’ is actively promoted all the time by muslim councils in public statements both in the US and Canada all the time. Again, you seemed to have missed this bit of activity and remain securely entombed in your tolerance cocoon. Well, reality shows us that this ‘creeping menace is real. It’s here. It’s ongoing. Your state of being awake sure looks identical to me to being fast asleep and determined to stay that way.

              But you, in moral outrage for being put on the spot, assume the need for a magnanimous treatment of the criticized, manage to avoid addressing the actual concerns I raise, and then do exactly what I said accommodating people like you do: you criticize the citicizer rather than deal with the facts deserving of criticism… as if you are the guardian of tolerance because you’re wide awake at the tremendous danger people who dare to criticize others for cause seem to awake in you. This deplorable tactic you demonstrate here is as empty of virtue as it is intellectual integrity. It’s both cowardly and disingenuous. It reminds me of the same apologetic tactics used in the Wiemar Republic to introduce and pass legislation regarding the establishment of hate laws against those who would dare to critcize the rise of National Socialism on the merits of the criticism itself… in the name of tolerance and respect. The only victim was the effective undermining of the legal pillar for the principles of Enlightenment values.

              You really do need to wake up.

              Your form of tolerance is far more dangerous to autonomous rights and freedoms and dignity of personhood in law as the placard-waving extremists who demand my beheading for blasphemy because you forget to consider the principles involved in what will become a titanic struggle between incompatible value sets… whether you recognize the writing on the wall or not.

              Comment by tildeb — November 8, 2013 @ 4:17 pm | Reply

              • ” In several urban areas in England where neighbourhood numbers of muslims are significant, what do we find? We find sharia courts. We find sharia ‘police’ patrolling areas. Here in Canada, we’ve fought a political battle to keep sharia courts from opening up with legal recognition in Ontario urban centers. In France and Germany and Denmark, we find underground sharia courts operating without official sanction.”

                And how is all of this different from other deviant subculture activity like gangs, the mafia, occultism. There is always that layer below the surface that pushes the envelope and works outside the law and has been since clans disappeared and urban life became the norm. To somehow portray “sharia” activities as a greater threat to law and order than other types of socially deviant behavior is to make yourself out to be just what I referred to you as – an alarmist, a conspiracy theorist. You may have a grasp of semantics and speak with a degree of eloquence, but that just makes you a prima donna alarmist

                ” It reminds me of the same apologetic tactics used in the Wiemar Republic to introduce and pass legislation regarding the establishment of hate laws against those who would dare to critcize the rise of National Socialism on the merits of the criticism itself”

                Did you just employ the Nazi card against me?

                ”Your form of tolerance is far more dangerous to autonomous rights and freedoms and dignity of personhood … blah, bah blah … whether you recognize the writing on the wall or not.

                Can I add the word arrogance to your list of characteristics too?

                Comment by lbwoodgate — November 8, 2013 @ 4:55 pm | Reply

                • But none of this is outside the law! That’s the point; it done in cooperation with the law, with law enforcement officers, with the support of local politicians, with the support of cabinet members and even the Prime Minister! This accommodationist approach is directly undermining the legal autonomy of real people in real life.

                  You can stop calling me names now, please. My criticisms are not a reflection of personality disorders you are attempting to define into existence to excuse you from adducing from reality why I say islam is a very great danger and why accommodating islam in practice is also a very great danger to all of us. Stop pretending that islam as practiced by good muslims ican peacefully coexist within Western secular liberal democracies and magically comport to the enlightenment values they are built on when the evidence from the reality we share overwhelmingly proves this factually wrong. My point here is that your tolerance for islam is entirely misplaced in your hopey-changey rosy world view. Reality begs to differ and you should listen to it.

                  Comment by tildeb — November 8, 2013 @ 6:54 pm | Reply

                  • ”That’s the point; it done in cooperation with the law, with law enforcement officers, with the support of local politicians, with the support of cabinet members and even the Prime Minister!”

                    So this is a conspiracy between law enforcement, our elected officials and Islamic terrorists?

                    ”My point here is that your tolerance for islam is entirely misplaced in your hopey-changey rosy world view.”

                    Hopey-changey?!? Really? Where have I heard that term before? Oh yes. Sara Palin made a similar disparagement about people who had voted for Obama. So now we see a different “personality disorder” that reflects the extremism of Muslim haters who castigate people like me who show , in their opinion, too much tolerance toward, what … the wrong crowd?

                    I don’t have an over-tolerant, rosy picture of Islam tildeb. I suspect though that you have a very fixated view on Islam. I question everything and challenge all absolutist views that portray events in larger than life context. To me extremist within Islam that are intent to rule the world are no better than Christians who, if not kept in check by our laws, would likely commit the same atrocities Muslims do in predominantly Islamic cultures toward some Xians.

                    I suspect your situation in Canada exposes you to a more liberal view of Islam but down here in the U.S. South I can affirm that Muslims here walk on egg shells for fear that their Mosques will be torched or their Imam shot. Down here, such intolerance of Muslims is more likely to be done in cooperation with law enforcement and locally elected officials, albeit subtly.

                    Comment by lbwoodgate — November 9, 2013 @ 6:06 am | Reply

                    • There’s no conspiracy I am promoting, lbwoodgate; I am pointing out tolerance run amok and a return to supporting the secular principles from enlightened thinking upon which our countries are founded.

                      Although my muslim friends know I disagree vehemently with the central values of the religion they identify with, they would be surprised to hear me labelled as a ‘muslim hater’ when I obviously am not; I deplore their support for a religion incompatible with values they live by and point his out whenever the opportunity arises! In fact, many of the discussions we’ve had very much involve their criticism of official tolerance and even aid to certain boards and councils that claim to represent muslims without any consent of those supposedly represented. (Our community has recently provided several people who turn out to be high profile muslim terrorists). They are frustrated at how spineless are so many of our officials who hold public offices even when faced by the exercise and justification of islamic bigotry and misogyny (they take great issue with official tolerance for this misogyny), who cave at demands to facilitate and accommodate absurd privileges in the public domain (specifically public schools to offer supervised gender divided prayer rooms)!

                      Unbeknownst to many who think tolerating and accommodating islamic values is a sign of an open and fair mind, my muslim friends complain bitterly that they immigrated here to get away from this kind of imbedded religious intolerance. Now, more than ever, they want nothing more than for there to be a clear divide between a secular public domain and a private one. They point out that crossing this divide by the pious and faitheists alike is worthy of the strongest criticism and condemnation.

                      I am proud to report that they are really bad muslims and for that I am thankful.

                      Comment by tildeb — November 9, 2013 @ 1:25 pm

  2. One might be tempted to think of your clear presentation here as Understanding Islam 10,1 but it is truly remarkable how little people know about it… so busy are they at condemning anyone who dares criticize it as necessarily being intolerant racist bigoted islamophobes because they criticize (and not because of the compelling reasons why that criticism is accurate)!

    Comment by tildeb — November 8, 2013 @ 10:25 am | Reply

  3. “Apparently all of the earlier peace speaking surahs in the Quran/Koran, the ones so lovingly quoted by the “Islam means peace” crowd, have been abrogated by the later “kill the infidel, rule the world” surahs.”

    For clarifications sake Stephen, are you suggesting that this view holds absolute with all sects and all groupings around the globe, bar none?

    Comment by lbwoodgate — November 8, 2013 @ 3:41 pm | Reply

    • No, not at all. I am fairly ignorant of what is going on around the world.

      But it is possible to trace back through time places like Indonesia which had at one time an indiginous religion and now is predominantly Muslim. Those stories are telling.

      I am appalled that an area of the world which produced such outstanding scholarship could now be fostering such a backward view of reality. Possibly this is due to the citizens of those countries not benefiting from the fruits of the enlightenment. When one looks at Bangladesh, and other countries which have gone Muslim, they seem very, very poor. I do no know whether this is due to Islam attraacting the poor and downtrodden, as Christianity once did, or is a pervasive effect of Islam.

      The point is gentlemen, and I would like us to behave as such, that we will have to deal with Islam in the future. It is not going away. In many western countries, there are developing sizable voting blocks. Whether they will vote as a block or not we will have to wait and see, but if India is any lesson, things could get very, very messy.

      My point is we need to see Islam for what it is, and not for what we would like to believe it is.

      PS We’ve moved (again)! Just change the Apt # from 28C to 17A (110 feet down and about 30 feet east). Effective Date: October 1, 2013

      *Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.* ************** Steve Ruis

      Comment by stephenpruis — November 8, 2013 @ 5:20 pm | Reply

      • “I am appalled that an area of the world which produced such outstanding scholarship could now be fostering such a backward view of reality”

        I wonder too Stephen how much poverty plays into this situation. In low-income regions, especially here in the South, christian fundamentalism, with high levels of intolerance, tends to predominate in people’s choice of faith.

        Comment by lbwoodgate — November 9, 2013 @ 6:26 am | Reply

      • we need to see Islam for what it is</i

        Exactly.

        Comment by tildeb — November 9, 2013 @ 1:05 pm | Reply

  4. Islam is a religion of peace – but only after you convert to it. Although, just converting might not be enough to get this peace, because you still have to convert the “right” Islam – Shia, Sunni, Allawi, etc..

    Comment by List of X — November 9, 2013 @ 12:43 am | Reply

  5. […] Ignorance of Islam (stephenpruis.wordpress.com) […]

    Pingback by Christians Are Ignorant About Islam | findingdoubt — November 24, 2013 @ 11:24 am | Reply

  6. What about you all learning Arabic?!

    Comment by oogenhand — February 13, 2017 @ 11:41 am | Reply


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